5 Things a Pastor Should Never Say

benlreed — February 28, 2012 — 110 Comments

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Ever heard a pastor say something that made you cringe?

We pastors say a lot. From the stage, to the phone, in an email, and in passing conversations, we are communicating with people most of our days. And while much of what we share is (hopefully) helpful, there are certain things that should never be said.

image credit: Creative Commons user The Justified Sinner

5 Things a Pastor should Never Say

1. “If it weren’t for the people, I’d love being a pastor.”

You’ve probably heard this one. In fact, you may have said it yourself. Often said in a moment of frustration or as a passing joke, this is a statement that can be incredibly hurtful to the people that need help the most. It inadvertently creates a wall between the pastor and those who are in need of grace and hope. And it makes people feel like there are problems too big to bring to their pastor.

Truth: Being a pastor is about the people. It’s about serving and giving and loving and pouring yourself out for others.

2. “This week was so busy, I didn’t even get a chance to work on my sermon.”

This is sad, really. There are a handful of things that only the pastor can do. (qualifier: having a teaching team is an option that many churches utilize, but when it’s your week to preach, this is no excuse). Preaching is one of them. It’s not that others aren’t qualified…it’s that your role that Sunday is to preach.

Truth: Having the stage (or the pulpit, depending on your context) on a Sunday morning is a great privilege. Neglecting that gift is irresponsible.

3. “I don’t have time for a small group.”

Thankfully, our pastors at Grace have never said this. But many pastors have. Their weeks are so busy with other activities (even good things) that they don’t feel like they have time in their lives for a small group. But if relationships are vital to growth in discipleship, you’d be foolish to neglect this. And it’s hard for you to tell them that small group life is worth bending their life around if you aren’t living that.

Truth: you don’t have time to not be involved in a small group.

4. “And my ninth point, again starting with the letter ‘W’…” Seriously, just write a book.

Truth: people will not remember all 9 points. Pick the most compelling, helpful point, and preach a sermon with that as your bottom line.

5. “Someone like you is not welcome here…”

I got a call this recently from someone, who said, “I have a friend, her name is ____. And she’s done ____. She talked with another church, and they have asked her not to come because of some stuff in her past. Is she welcome at Grace?” Honestly, I was taken aback. It literally took my breath away. I told her that there are few things in life that cause my blood to boil. This happens to be one of them.

Truth: God’s grace is huge. Minimizing it is foolish.

Question:

What have you heard a pastor say that caused you to cringe?

* image credit: Creative Commons user The Justified Sinner

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benlreed

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Christ follower, husband, father, writer, pastor of small groups at Long Hollow Baptist Church. Communications director for the Small Group Network.

Theatresquare

“There are a handful of things that only the pastor can do.” “Preaching is one of them.”
What are the other things that “only the pastor can do”? I’m curious.

Are you saying that the Pastor is the only one gifting in teaching? If the church leadership is really about equipping others to be leaders, shouldn’t the leadership also be allowing others to find their gifts in teaching?
Thanks for your time.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

I tried to find a way to word that better, but I just couldn’t without writing a whole book.

What I meant was that there are certain things that you, the pastor, are gifted at and have been called to. You also happen to have accepted these things as your vocation. Things that “only you can do.” Not that other people aren’t gifted at them, or couldn’t do them…it’s just that if you know you’re going to preach on Sunday, and you don’t work on your sermon throughout the week, that’s an irresponsible way to communicate the truth of the Gospel.

Hope that makes sense. I’m not at all saying that God hasn’t gifted His Church with varying gifts of teaching and leadership. I fully believe in the priesthood of all believers.

But pastors shouldn’t use that as an excuse to not study.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1653822874 Robb Sundin

Being a “Pastor” is not a one day a week job “preaching” from the pulpit . The “flock” excepts and should demand that their Pastor also be able to minister in the daily lives of their parishioners–their personal trials with being on Theatre Square, where all doesn’t go according to script.

I truly believe that to be a pastor, there is a true calling. Beyond the calling comes education in many areas, including it doesn’t mean that you have to be expert in all of life’s challenges. Counsel where you feel qualified and don’t hesitate to refer your troubled member(s) of your flock to ones with expertise beyond your capabilities. Each of us have God given talents. We must use them.

For those talents we don’t share or have, there is no shame in referring to another that has “the gift” in areas we lack, Our directive from above, is not to bury our talents, because we feel them of no value. So each of us is challenged to go forth, multiplying the value of our gifts. Those with the seemingly inconsequential, may be exactly where the one in pain really makes a positive connection.

So, I return a challenge to you. Expand or refine your definition of “teaching” in reference to pastoring a flock to define a “handful.” For your consideration, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastoral_care

May your ministry and those that are part of your flock benefit from your enlightened counsel.

Leslie Oden

This is a great topic. The first thing that came to mind came not from our pastor, but from his wife years ago. I was saying that I thought that creating a “casual dress” environment at church was one way to encourage those who don’t know Christ to visit our church. Her reply literally left me speechless. She said we ‘need to give outsiders a good example of bringing God our best by the way we dress on Sundays. We needed to give them something to reach for, to aspire to’….*gag*

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Ouch, that’s sad, Leslie. Just sad.
Charles Lewis

Actually I agree with the pastor’s wife. What does it say about our attitude about God if we come to church in slouchy clothes? We will dress up to go on a date, but when it comes to God we don’t care? If someone comes to our church and sees everyone “casual” somehow I don’t think they will be impressed. Having said that, I do believe that it is a personal choice. Also, I would want to make sure that anyone felt welcome no matter how they were dressed.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Hey Charles,
Thanks for the comment. Can I be honest with you, though?

I’m not convinced that God’s impressed by our nice clothes…nor is He disappointed by our less-than-nice clothes. God wants our hearts.

Seeing everyone “casual” may not impress everyone. And I’m okay with that. My hope is that they would be shocked by grace, love, and hope found in Jesus.

Hope that makes sense.

Fred

Yes, God wants our hearts first, but what is in my heart shows in my life… practice. When my heart is changed, my life changes also. And when one knows God in all his holiness and majesty, we just don’t dress in what comforts me; we come to worship the King of kings! The old saying is, I rather see a sermon than hear one any day!!
The other thing is that God is not impressed by any thing we do or are.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Hey Fred, I really do appreciate you sticking with this comment thread.

I’m afraid this is going to have to be one of those things we just “agree to disagree” on.

I agree that God’s not impressed by anything we do. Totally agree.

But I just can’t find it in Scripture where I’m commanded to dress up to attend a worship service. To me, that seems to be more of a cultural expectation. Nothing wrong with it. But I just can’t find it as a biblical expectation.
http://twitter.com/dentinsley dennistinsley

It depends on your mission. If you’re mission is to create believers that look, speak, act and dress a specific way because that’s what your church values… knock yourself out.

But if your mission is to reach those far from Christ and express his grace to them, dress should be a non-issue. Let’s grease the wheels as much as possible to display that grace.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1653822874 Robb Sundin

What a narrow point of view. If there is not enough “casualness” in the congregation (giving the impression that if one doesn’t dress as well as you), you aren’t welcome, then define God’s House of Fashion. Dressed in slouchy clothes? It just might be that the one seeking God the most and cannot afford dress from your definition of “God’s House of Fashion, will be discouraged from being welcome.

Yes, dress your best to worship. But DO NOT judge others that don’t dress to your personal “worship standard.” If your church is one that acknowledges and supports the works of Dorcas, give your “Dorcas” a chance to offer their gifts. Then rejoice and make shure that you really “want to make sure that anyone felt welcome no matter how they were dressed.”

Hope you also read Ben Reed’s post.
Glenn Toney

“Am I now trying to win the approval of men and of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.” Gal. 1:10. I don’t think it’s about impressing people with ourselves, but to impress God upon them. If someone has feelings of being “underdressed”, I have my doubts about the message being heard. I do appreciate your comment about making them feel welcome regardless of their clothing. After all, it is about showing the love of Christ to everyone, isn’t it?

Anonymous

wow, how ridiculous! I guess they have never been overseas. They don’t exactly worship in suits and ties…. How sad that’s what Christ has become to them. Someone who is worried about what we wear on Sunday…

Pastor Mark

We support a dear pastor in DR Congo and hope to visit him this year, to do some teaching and preaching. We asked about the dress code and he told us we’d be fine with a collared shirt at a minimum because we’re Americans, but that all the pastor and leaders wear at least a shirt and tie. Please bear in mind the humidity, etc., this will not be Northern California on a Sunday morning. But guess what? I’ll definitely bring a suit and tie, because Jesus is Worth It!

http://www.jasonvana.com Jason Vana

Sadly, I’ve heard the “if it weren’t for the people, I’d love being a pastor” line on more than one occasion. In our world of church organizations and, let’s be honest, business mentality, we’ve lost focus that ministry isn’t about nice buildings and programs and salaries. It’s about people. Any pastor who says they would love being a pastor if it weren’t for the people needs to step down from their position.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Those folks have lost sight of their calling, for sure.

http://somewiseguy.com ThatGuyKC

I’ve suffered through #4 more times than I can count, but #1 & 5 still blow me away. Like you said being a pastor is about people and how DARE someone minimize God’s grace and mercy.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Yeah, I think they’re looking right past major blessings when they say things like #1 & #5.

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Liz

My former pastor’s wife reports to him what people say on their Twitter & FB. He told us we should only write “Ra Ra Jesus” He agreed the american church is in trouble but should not talk about it. If we didn’t agree-he could not trust us in our ministries any longer. I had written the old saying : “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me”. He thought every comment was about him. The next sunday he quoted that in his sermon-explaining that that person doesn’t understand the grace of God. I would add-Don’t attack church members from the pulpit.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Ouch. That’s a good addition, Liz.

http://www.mhmcintyre.us Mark McIntyre

Great post.

Another problem I’ve seen is when someone who makes a suggestion gets identified as a trouble-maker. If a pastor cannot learn from his people then both are in trouble.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

That’s true for sure, Mark. Great point.

RKReader

Heard a priest say ” I am not a pastor — that is not my role…”

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Hmmm…what is their role, then?!?

Anonymous

A few years ago as I lay in a hospital bed after deing diagnosed as just suffering a heart attack, my Pastor came to visit and admitted that as soon as he heard the news, his first reaction was, “YES – something has happened to him at last!!” or words to that effect
I took it as a positive comment and a demonstration of trust that he shared it with me publically as I immediately understood what he meant.
Would you? Do you?

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Hmm…I’m not sure that I completely understand what your pastor means!

Trust is a great thing, for sure. But I guess I’m hearing your pastor wrong…what was said sounds hurtful. But I’m sure I’m wrong…help me here.

Susan Frigge

No Pain, No Gain. If nothing ever goes “wrong” in our lives, we would never know how much we can trust Jesus. If nothing ever gets broken, we wouldn’t know what a great healer, restorer, fixer He is.

I also am glad when seeing someone faced with a “trial”. Those are the times when things get stronger and better( if we let them anyway.)

Taking Joy in our trials (James 1:2) knowing that so many good things come out of “weight training”. How else do we build muscles?

Anonymous

Well done Susan! A whole bag of Brownie Points to you
But actually, the Lord gave me a full blessings of faith, which my Pastor had never seen demonstrated. Actually on hearing the hear attack diagnosis, my only thought was “well this will increase my health insurance premiums…” Well, not quite true – the other one was a prayer for the Lord to keep the pain going, then I’d know I’m still alive
The Pastor had seen me cruise through life with no apparent worries; ergo, no apparent need to relpy on God, or anyone else for that matter. But human sight and perception can be decieving.
Jesus after all, told us to pray in secret, when fasting – don’t let it show and in giving, don’t let the right hand know what the lest is doing.
I guess my Pastor just could not see with spiritual eyes.
abnyway, Priase the Lord! All is well with my Soul!

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Katie

Ben,

This is my first time visiting your blog, and I wanted to let you know that you are an excellent comment moderator. I definitely enjoyed your post, but it’s rare that I’d read through all of the comments on a post and the blogger’s responses to all of them.

Thanks for taking the time to build a conversation.:)

Katie

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Thanks for the encouragement, Katie! I’ve made it my goal to not just put out content, but build a community.

Glad you noticed.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1653822874 Robb Sundin

#5. Someone like you isn’t welcome here.

As a leader in a church that had previously gotten past “you aren’t welcome here,” we became pastorless. The new pastor placed me in this category and has also driven it’s youth away again (or at least to the foyer). We made a huge mistake and settled for a pastor that was in satisfactory geographic compatibility to make him this church’s worst nightmare. Pushing our concerns up the church chain of command got the brush off, saying “we prefer local problems be worked out at the local level.”

Work that turned around our young people’s (high school and college age) desire to become re-engaged was absolutely DESTROYED. Others that had been positive forces and life long supporters in this church, quit attending.

There is especially one (with her children) that came back to a church who previously had given her the message she wasn’t welcome. She has again given up her struggle with a loving God and returned to a life that this pastor condemns and refuses to show the compassion of God’s love.

Hurricane Katrina ended my mission in this church. My hope is this church family doesn’t need to endure another such catastrophe to turn the vision of this church’s pastorate into one that isn’t a weekly “emergency elder’s meeting” following the service, to put another on the list of “you aren’t welcome here” and we are going to drive you away.

A Pastor’s primary mission is to provide sanctuary–a place of safety and guidance. All too often, a Church gets confused and lost with that—a Church that is also a Sanctuary! When this happens, it falls upon the “pastor” designated to lead and to grow his flock. He of all, should be the last to cast the first stone.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

What a sad story, Robb. So sorry to hear about people getting burned in the Church. It shouldn’t be.

Aurabella74

#3 makes me laugh considering what my preacher is willing to do for me and my friends. What was supposed to be a six week series that we were going to do in a coffee shop about Jesus at 9:15am on Sundays has turned into him meeting with us every Sunday for the last year at 8:15am to answer any questions we have AT ALL concerning the bible, and we’ve had some off the wall questions. Our group typically consist of only 3-4 of us. We’ve come in tired, hung over, broken hearted, angry, and unfortunately last time did not show up at all – but he has never pushed us, never judged us, and even after him driving out of his way last Sunday and no one showing up because of “partying” all night, is still willing to sit with us to teach us without complaint. And what was our subject supposed to be last Sunday?? Forgiveness. thank God he was willing to forgive us for letting him down and wasting his time. The things above, I can never say about my preacher. He rocks and has given me a passion for learning more!

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Seems like your pastor exudes patience and forgiveness!

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Timothy Durey

I hate it when I hear pastors (in particular) say, “I’m no theologian. . . .” Really? Then why am I listening to you on a weekly basis?

Another one I experienced was from a previous pastor who consistently would say something like, ”I wish I had more time to talk about this point, but. . . .” He said it so often that I felt like he was a victim to his schedule and just had to “make it through the series.”

By the way, I’m a pastor. I’m sure I’ve said dumb stuff. Praise God for His grace in forgiving and also in growing us!

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Yeah, no kidding, Timothy. I’ve said some dumb stuff, too.

I’ve heard the, “I’m no theologian” before. The reality is that everyone is a theologian. The question is: what kind of a theologian are you?

Good angle on the “I wish I had more time…” quote. It does make you feel like you’re a victime to his schedule.

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Bruceprosser

Word study fallacies during an offering appeal. “God loves a hilarious giver”. Pastors who go way over their heads lingustically. Quote biblical languages and butcher the pronounciation. Makes me batty.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Word study fallacies? Sounds like you’ve been reading some DA Carson!

http://www.amazon.com/Exegetical-Fallacies-D-A-Carson/dp/0801020867/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331640907&sr=1-4

Barbara Jackson

Something simple but glaring – a former pastor in a former church; preaching against sin as a matter of routine, and then just before the big homecoming dinner, inviting everyone back, “Gluttony might be a sin but maybe God will forgive us this time.” I would add – don’t trivialize the concept of sin.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Ouch. Good add, Barbara!

JennUK

During my first visit to a new church, the pastor said he was going to pray for God to open our “stingy hearts” because the congregation wasn’t donating enough for the new church center. I never went back (and I didn’t donate a penny either).

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

That just made me chuckle. “I didn’t donate a penny either.”

Thanks for that, Jenn. I needed a laugh today!

Andersfamily

“Sunday is not my sabbath day; I take another day of the week as my sabbath” said to people who got up extra early to set up, teach Sunday school, lead music, serve, etc. and who do not have the option to choose another day of the week for rest….

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Hmm…not sure I fully agree with you here. Pastors have to sabbath, too, right?

If “Honor the Sabbath and keep it holy” is a command, what’s your proposition on how pastors should keep this? Just curious.

Garry Geer

As a pastor, I see Sunday as my Sabbath. I don’t count it as a work day. If I am preaching, etc with the intent to worship, and give praise to God through His power I find that I am more refreshed than if I just laid around the house.
Kim

Pastors should have a day off, of course, but they should help us to see
Sunday as the sabbath even in the midst of our service. Many people work six days a week and still serve long hours on Sunday and they need to still find rest on that day. By the way, mothers never have a sabbath….

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Good point about how pastors should help others see Sunday as the sabbath even in the midst of service. Very solid point.

And even more solid…the fact that mothers don’t really get a Sabbath. My wife and I have a 3 year old at home…he never slows down!

http://www.facebook.com/people/Joe-Rhoads/100000964697677 Joe Rhoads

Sunday is my sabbath. Even though I preach, lead worship, teach Sunday School every Sunday, Sunday is still the day I rest. The act of preaching, teaching, and leading worship are my acts of worship. My work is preparing the sermon, the lesson, the worship during the week.

Riete

What happened to me a few years ago … and it still makes me cringe …

I had a severe burn out and it was all I could do to get to church every Sunday. One period during that time it was bad. I was so down and out it showed apparently. After the service the pastor came to me (he happened to know me personally as I was head of the children’s ministry) and asked how I was doing. I told him it was very difficult. “We need to have a talk, then”, he said. I was so glad as I really needed that. But then he continued, “I’ll have to look, though. I won’t have time these coming weeks as you know we have daily prayer meetings. I’ll call you but you know, ministry first, my dear.” And off he went.

He never called and we never had that talk.

Being to busy to care for your people … that’s being to busy! (your #3, I guess)

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

If meeting with people who are struggling isn’t the role of a pastor, then what is it?!?

Isn’t that shepherding 101?

Thanks for jumping in to share your story, Riete. Hope you haven’t had many experiences like that.

http://www.truthstory.wordpress.com/ Loreli

“Don’t disappoint Jesus.”
A pastor told me that years ago when I asked for time to consider a ministry he asked me to undertake. (The only reason I had needed time was because I was already over-involved in the church and I had to make some decisions about where to serve.) I got over it and even got a laugh out of it. I was surprised to hear it from the pulpit of another minister recently – he was giving an exhortation to the congregation to engage in acts of service.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Nothing like throwing a little Jesus-shame to get people to do what you want.
Matt Anthony

On a related note, I heard a Christian worker tell a story of how he had led a group of boys on a paper drive to buy some equipment for their youth clubs. After they had brought the results back to him, he told them, “Great job, now show Jesus how much you love Him and go back out for more.” Maybe his intent was sincere, but that is such a legalistic, manipulative thing to say. Anyone, especially a kid, would hear that as “Show me how much you love Jesus.” As an adult, I would respond, “I have no obligation to prove my love for Jesus to you.”

Guest

I apologize if you’ve dealt with this elsewhere, but Number 5 above seems to be directed related to the gay/lesbian community. How does No. 5 fit in with a belief that such relationships are inherently wrong?

If I don’t believe the relationships are inherently wrong/sinful, then surely No. 5 is true? What am I missing? (I know this is a big/difficult topic…feel free to point me somewhere else, if you have dealt with this already.)

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

No worries, “Guest.”

Number 5 isn’t pointed directly at any one people group, demographic, or struggle.

We had a lady that was wanting to begin attending our local church. She had been accused, publicly by the law, of some pretty horrible things. Her reputation, which was by her admission was well-earned, preceded her. She asked whether someone like her, with her past and current struggles, would be welcome. To bar her from attending would’ve been anti-Gospel, anti-redemption, and anti-grace.

I believe that any and every sin is wrong. But that doesn’t mean that we can’t have a relationship. And that also doesn’t mean that I won’t allow you into our church. If you’re struggling with a sin, I would long for you to experience the truth, grace, and love that authentic, Gospel-centered community offers. There’s nowhere else I’d point you than a healthy local church!

Does that make sense? Did I answer your question?

Guest

First, thanks for your response.

I think you’ve choosen an “easy” example (although I don’t know the specifics, so maybe the underlying facts aren’t that “easy.”) At any rate, someone who wants to turn their life around, and comes to the church in order to find a way forward, well then it seems fairly straightforward to be welcoming to that person.

I guess I have a harder situation. I’ve thought long and hard, done a lot of soul-searching, praying, reading, and talking. I’ve reached the conclusion that there is nothing “wrong” with being gay or lesbian. I don’t believe it is sinful behavior (under certain conditions).

What I hear in your response (“if you are strugging with sin”), is that you are open to people who are still open to the idea that is sinful behavior. And I guess I’ve moved past that, as I believe it is a settled issue (to my mind, at least).

Of course I appreciate your response that we can still have a relationship. Maybe I can change your mind. But at the end of the day, I don’t think I’d be welcome in your church.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Hey Guest,

First of all…I know you’d be welcome at Grace. Every Sunday. With open arms.

As far as where I stand with homosexuality…yeah, that’s a different post for a different day.

But we’d not ask you to not attend.

If I believe that you’re living a life of sin, whether you’re ready to change or not, it’s truth and grace and love and community that you need. Which is what you’d get in our local church. So I’d be foolish to not let you worship with us.

We’re challenging people to grow and change, but it’s all under the umbrella of grace and hope.

Come worship with us any time!

Guest

Thanks.
dave4truth

As a retired pastor, I sure have relished these posts and the masterful work of the moderator! Now, there is an area that I wouldn’t “welcome” someone and here it is: One day a former marine who decided “he” was a “lady” came to our church dressed as a woman. (As I remember, this man was planning on a sex change operation to be “she”.)

We were super welcoming and even began developing a relationship when…”she” decided that “she” had a right to the women’s bathroom. That’s where we had to lovingly step in, before our lady’s went into total apoplexy. So, in this old world of sin and confusion, there really are, sadly, exceptions to “come as you are” to church!
http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Wow. That’s a sticky situation, Dave. “Come as you are” still applies, though. I’d still invite that persoN to come, worship, and experience grace and truth.

But that stance doesn’t mean that difficult, Gospel-centered conversations shouldn’t take place. Redemption is possible and necessary for the most highly polished, the messiest of messy, the most intelligent of the intelligent, and the most confused of the confused.

Glad we have a Gospel that’s powerful enough to save!

Homekeeper

My pastor always says something like this at a funeral: I feel so much more sorrow for the spouse who is left behind than for the children. The marriage relationship is holy and much closer than the parent child relationship.
He said it at my Mother’s funeral. I could only think, “My step dad has known my Mother for 5 years, I’ve known her all my life. He can go on to marry again (and he did) and have another marriage relationship. I only have one Mother.
Anyway, it really hurt at the time and I wished he didn’t say it to others who have lost a parent.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

I understand, theologically, why someone would say that. But I can so see how that would be hurtful. I’m throwing this one in the “Never say that” notebook.

Thanks for sharing your pain so that we could learn from you.

Anonymous

Pastors should never diminish or downplay their role as a leader either. I once heard a pastor say, “Things move so fast around here I often have to run out in front & remind people I’m in charge.”

To me that says there is a complete lack of vision for Kingdom living/leadership & confidence in God’s call.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Good add, Andy. Leadership is so important.

Brent Brewer

Don’t use illustrations of your next door neighbor during a sermon that paints them in a negative light. #hopetheydon’thaveI-tunes

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Haha…that’s funny, Brent.

Seems like that statement would be banking its hopes on a pastor not ever thinking their neighbor would visit their church.
John Carpenter

and don’t use illustrations of yourself in a positive light . . . at least not commonly.

Anonymous

Our former pastor said and I quote…”if you want notoriety follow Jesus…” Then at the end of every service he would pray for better homes, better jobs, and better cars. I hated to hear that. Especially since so many haven’t heard the gospel and we are praying for ourselves!! Definitely made me cringe. We didn’t stay long at the church.
Tim Irvin

I cringe when I hear pastor’s say, “I’ve sacrificed my family time for my church”. Really? I drove a truck (over-the-road) for 14 years. I was gone from home 14-21 days and then home for 2 or 3. Pastors have enough home time.

Abby193

I think this comment is pretty harsh. Just because pastors are “at home” doesn’t mean they see able to spend time connecting with their family. Especially when the church is to small to pay the pastor and he had to work two jobs and deal with family members who are dealing with life threatening diseases. And no one can have enough family time.
Kay

Hi Tim,

I think I understand your sentiment, however as a pastor’s daughter (now grown and married) I would point out, as Abby193 did, that “home time” for a pastor does not equal “family time.”

Often pastors struggle to have adequate time and/or emotional energy and capacity to care for their own families, as it is all too easy to become caught up in and consumed with their care for the flock they are leading. If anything, I would be concerned about this pastor’s statement because he should not be giving in to the temptation to allow his role as pastor to override his PRIMARY responsibility as husband and father.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Joe-Rhoads/100000964697677 Joe Rhoads

Be wary of a pastor that says that. Taking care of your family is a mandatory qualification to be a pastor. Spending time, quality time, is part of taking care of family. As a pastor, I have to choose church over family, from time to time, because something urgent has come up. But a pastor that routinely chooses church over family has their priorities mixed up. Pastors ought to be grateful that they are in a profession that allows them, for the most part, to have flexibility in their daily schedule to spend time with family. Tim, I don’t know how men like you do your job, spending so much time away. My guess is that you fought with the desire to be home with the need to provide for your family. My hat’s off to guys like you.

Blah

Pastors should never say roll tide.

http://twitter.com/drrandle D.R. Randle

I think there may actually be some congregations in Alabama that per the bylaws require the pastor to say that at the end of every service.
Matt Anthony

I assume you are being facetious, but I do have a related “never say” item. Pastors should not end the service by dismissing their congregation with “Go Bears.” Substitute the favorite local team for Bears and it is just as inappropriate. The congregation has just spent 1-2 hours worshipping the King of the Universe and the last thing we are left with is an admonition to root for some athletes? I don’t need any encouragement to take my eyes of Christ especially from the pulpit. I can do that fine on my own.

http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/5PKYA7BURKXKW5P2EFW4EZYSZU DHS

I have a couple of things. When I was a teenager I used to sing in the church choir, then one day the pastor came up to me and said “unless you have a button up shirt, you cannot be in the choir.” I was taken aback, I took myself to church and my family could not afford to buy me a new shirt just so I could be in the choir. The thing that really got me was that the choir wore robes so you could not even see my shirt. Now I will admit I cannot carry a tune in a bucket, but if that was the reason be honest. I still sing out and make a joyful noise unto the Lord, even if it is not the most appealing to the congregation

My second comes in the path of deacons and eldership when people hold up marriage above all the rest of the requirements. I have know godly men that have been divorced and have re-married for several year and have been spiritual leaders and teacher’s in the church, but then be told they are disqualified from being a deacon or an elder. If this is the case why let them teach? A requirement to be an elder is to be able to teach. Yet I have seen men that have been married only once yet are unable to keep their children under control. My thought is that God’s grace is sufficient enough to forgive all our sins. I have even heard some say a man who marries a divorced woman is ineligible. I look at the life of Paul and how he was before coming to Christ and then how he was used to greatly influence the New Testament. If he can be in such a leadership role I am positive God can forgive man of any of his other sins to allow them to be a deacon or elder.

SLK

I’d like to hear some church leaders comment on this because our small, rural church currently has no deacons because the few men we have who might be qualified otherwise are in a second marriage. Do we call ignoring divorce as a disqualifier an acknowledgement of social reality or an acceptance of sin as a way of life? Are we rationalizing for our own convenience or forgiving sin and forgetting its consequences?

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

SLK, so I’m guessing by your comment that you call it a disqualifier? Would you be up for an alternative interpretation of the 1 Timothy 3 passage, outlining the qualifications of a deacon?
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/5PKYA7BURKXKW5P2EFW4EZYSZU DHS

SLK, my point is that by the standards set on that one “qualifier” we are all disqualified from service. The Lord says if you have looked upon a woman with lust you have committed adultery. If you have hated you have committed murder. He also states that if you have broken just one you are guilty of all. This is not rationalizing for convenience, this is stating God’s standard and how none of us can live up to it. By the qualifications listed to be an elder or deacon if you have ever thrown a punch you are disqualified.

http://thepfjournal.wordpress.com/ Carey

Regarding the “Small Group Attendance” point… (and I guess all the others) – as a Pastor of almost 20 years, I’ve seen varieties of all these (and have probably, embarrassingly, said some of them too). But I caution that Pastors are not criticized prematurely, when all the facts are not understood. They are humans, seeking to follow Christ as best they, their experience, and the scriptures have equipped them (so far) to do. The Small Group issue as a case in point: If a Pastor is working in a biblically patterned environment of “co-leadership” (i.e. Elder Team), then he IS in a small group… at least the leadership team SHOULD be functioning in the same way for that group of men as a small group does for the rest of the church family. I agree with the point of needing growth through community… but be careful to realize that there may be contexts in his life that are outside of “promoted” channels where that need may be met.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

An elder team isn’t necessarily a small group, though, Carey. It can be, but doesn’t have to be.

I wouldn’t want a pastor to be involved in a purely governing body of leaders and think that that’s feeding his soul’s need for community, encouragement, edification, and Gospel-centered correction.

But yes, the goal doesn’t have to be “small groups” in particular. “Biblical community” should be the goal.

Rhea

#2 wouldn’t bother me AT ALL. What if a family that attends the pastor’s church was in a horrible car accident, and half the family passed away? So he’s got two funerals to do that week, along with helping to take care of those who survived. In that situation, I sure HOPE that he’d be too busy taking care of his flock to have much time to work on his sermon.

http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/5PKYA7BURKXKW5P2EFW4EZYSZU DHS

Rhea,
I think it is the overall point of things. You give an extreme example of what could happen. However, he should still find a way to properly tend the flock. If that were to happen he should be able to call on one of the men in the church to lead the service on Sunday. This makes sure that the flock is being properly taken care of and he can also attend to his other pastoral duties.

http://twitter.com/drrandle D.R. Randle

I once heard, “I can’t do expository preaching – We’ve already had enough people leave the Church since I got here. If I did that, everyone else would leave.”
Guest

One of our church members voluntarily accompanied a Christian group to his home country for Bible distribution after the wall came down on the Eatsern bloc countries. After giving a moving testimony of God’s work in that country, our teaching elder said something to the effect “Well that’s very good and interesting Stephen, but we as a denomination do not support that missionary organization”. Ouch!!! (This same elder said that all members MUST attend chrch services where he was preaching. “If I prepare a sermon – I expect you to be there”.
http://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.bunting Elizabeth Bunting

“We pastors are to preach only. We don’t have to help the poor and homeless. We are not welfare officers.”
Bubba

I hate it when pastors talk about things they should never say. just sayin

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Yeah, me too. Even worse: when they write a blog post about it.

Michael Dean

I personally cringe every time I hear a pastor refer to someone as an “extra grace required” person. Or worse, if he refers to that person as an EGR in a personal conversation, like you are in “the ministry club” if you know what an EGR is without having it explained.

For me, this comes down to saying that some people are more broken than others. That bothers me. Granted I have seen my fair share of healing in Christ, but I still need a lot of grace day to day. And I hate the idea of comparing myself to others in that way ,and I wish that others wouldn’t either.

(Confession time)

While I never refer to anyone as an EGR, I truthfully do make comparison between myself and others. It is an ugly plank in my eye. I’d rather love the Christ in a person than focus on their faults. That makes me a work in progress, just like everyone else.
Anonymous

Maybe I haven’t been out enough, but I’ve not actually heard a real pastor say any one of these. I’ve heard rumors, but nothing more than hearsay.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Sounds like you’ve been fortunate enough to be under the leadership of some incredible pastors!

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Gingytx

During a sermon on tithing or giving, a pastor tells us how he gives 20% of his full income (before tax) instead of 10% in addition to any offering. I always wonder about what his motive is in telling us about his giving.
Josepheguia

Very insightful, Praise God i never heard any of my Pastors say or use any of theses!!!!!! Then again i and they would expect us to confront them with something like this. Great post will be sharing.
Ibcmoberly

As a Pastor for 30 years, I have to take #5 in the general spirit in which it is offered. While I would never tell anyone that their “type” of person is not welcome, I have on a few occasions told individuals not to come back. These are very specific circumstances in which this person was not coming to worship or seek redemption, but was rather using the easy acceptance of the church as a way to cause harm to people. As a shepherd, one of my responsibilities is to protect the sheep from wolves. One of these cases was a pedophile who propositioned a few pre-teen boys in the restroom before worship. My choice was between asking him not to come back, or leaving these boys with the impression that church is a place where such things are overlooked. Had he shown any sort of sorrow or repentance for this, we may have been able to work something out, but he did not. Not everyone who come to church is a sheep, or even a seeker. Once in a while a wolf has to be smacked on the snout.
Connie

A former pastor said several times to members who had missed a few Sundays, “I thought you had forgotten where we are. Do I need to draw you a map?” And he wasn’t completely joking, either.
Dspaugh

As a pastor, I have to watch what I say. We all do. I’ve said some stupid things. But I do find some of the comments here a little condescending. Some of this comes across as “That pastor is so stupid, he said…” Pastor’s are easy targets because they are front and center on numerous occasions, other than every Sunday morning (and maybe evening). It is a big responsibility, and the words we say have eternal ramifications. But is this whole thread profitable? What is it accomplishing, other than to mock? I find it discouraging just reading it. Why don’t we change it to “5,000,000 Things Laymen Should Never Say to Their Pastor,” like “I’ll pray about that” (translation, I don’t want to do it, but I want to appear spiritual, but really hope you’ll forget all about it”), or “If someone is lost it’s the pastor’s fault because he couldn’t reach him,” or “What can you tell me about ____” (after the pastor just preached on it the last 2 Sundays), or “I don’t think you should
preach on that subject, because i know for a fact there are people who
don’t come back because they don’t like it.” Or my personal favorite:
coming to the pastor after he’s been on vacation and saying, “Pastor,
that guest speaker we had last week was great. It’s the best sermon
I’ve heard in a long time.” I could go on. I’ve heard all these, and generally just brush them off as human foible. But think about the stupid things you may have said to HIM, and then ask yourself, “When was the last time I said something to encourage him?”

I don’t want to sound like this is personal, because it’s not really. I have a good group of folks in our church, and we get along fine, and I’m happy in the ministry. I’m 52 years old, and have been Sr. Pastor at the same church for the better part of 26 years. It’s just that this whole things seems so un-edifying. Maybe you’d all do well if instead of having roast preacher some Sunday afternoon, you asked him over for Sunday dinner. Maybe he’d feel appreciated.

Pastor N

Can’t agree more mate. Just finished a full weekend of meetings, giving out, encouraging the people and frankly I’m worn out. And then I come across a blog that (although seems to be started innocently by Ben) gets hijacked by the usual group of arm-chair critics. They should go through the whole of the New Testament and crtique the words of Jesus and the Apostle Paul. They would be shocked just how rude, blunt and utterly non-politically-correct these men were!

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Thanks for the sentiments, and for the investment you’re making in those you’re leading, Pastor N!

I didn’t intend for this post to be a chance for people to bash pastors. I wanted to encourage pastors (like myself) to not say hurtful things.

It’s hard to control where the comments go, and how any given post will land with people.

Hope the post itself was helpful for you.
Dspaugh

Hey Pastor N. The following from your quote”They should go through the whole of the New Testament and crtique the
words of Jesus and the Apostle Paul. They would be shocked just how
rude, blunt and utterly non-politically-correct these men were!”

An excellent point. This is one of the battles I have with pragmatists who want to use Jesus for their own pet political projects, but don’t pay attention to everything He said. They want the Jesus of their imagination, not the one of the NT.

http://www.benreed.net Ben Reed

Thanks for the sentiments, Dspaugh. Yeah, I didn’t intend on this post being a pastor bashing. Not at all! I’m a pastor myself, and greatly respect the role God has called me to.

I wrote the post to highlight a few things that pastors sometimes say off the cuff that we shouldn’t. I want the best for my role as pastors, and want as much as possible for all pastors to uphold the highest standards.

To your point about “5,000,000 things a layman should never say to their pastor,” I did kind of write that one already. Check out my post “5 Things You Should Be Careful Saying to your Pastor”: http://www.benreed.net/index.php/2012/03/07/5-things-you-should-be-careful-saying-to-your-pastor/

Dspaugh

Thanks for understanding Ben. I hope I didn’t come across “whiney.” My sentiments were intended to be more “Take a breath, and think about it.”

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1164451469 Jack Larwa

It’s like you are in my head man! Thank you for sharing your thoughts, it means a great deal to know that other pastors are convicted about the same things in similar ways. Peace!
Marie

Oh yes, #5. My father-in-law received a call from a potential congregant, saying “I have been sent away from other churches because I’m a single mother. Am I allowed to attend yours?” When his blood was done boiling, he said “At least a quarter of our church is single mothers, so you’ll be in good company.”
Timothy

DHS 1 Timothy Chapter 3 Means just what it say’s.When Paul is giving the qualifications of a preacher of having one wife it is because they are to set an example for us not to divorce and remarry. It is true the law of Moses was given because of the hardness of our hearts but that did not change gods law . One husband one wife.A preacher has to be a light before the world and live according to Gods laws and not mans.A preacher must meet these guide lines or he is not qualified.Paul also say’s a woman who remarries after a divorce she is called an adulteress and when this happens there is no changing this situation unless there is a splitting up and not sleeping together any longer.It is also true that when one lust after another in their own heart they are committing adultery but they can go to God and ask for forgiveness.There is no one who is perfect but Christ him self but we are to do our very best in life . Still there are the laws of God.And there are rules for the dress of a woman in the bible .Any thing we need to know in life is in the Book.