The 1 Reason why So Many People Want “Deeper” Content

Man that’s really good, Seth.
It all boils down to a misunderstanding of intellectual and spiritual knowledge. We crave more of the greek and the hebrew, of the cultural context, of the aorist imperative verb tenses – because that tickles our intellect. We feel we’re growing.
But in my experience, true growth doesn’t really come from the collection of more facts but in the application of those facts to our hearts, minds, words, actions, and life.

We get intellectual and spiritual knowledge mixed up all the time… I’m with you that my seasons of growth have been when I’ve been more focused on applying and less focused on knowledge.

Thanks for that
I’ve always loved using my mind, making  cases and tackling “deep” issues, and remain deeply (see what I did there?) unsatisfied when studies only scratch the surface.
Still, just because a study doesn’t go deep, doesn’t mean it will be relational. Sometimes, Bible studies which have been prepared feel like a list of questions to check off a list, and we move on to the next item without being changed personally – and without having progressed in mind knowledge either.
And you can go deep and be personal – it’s when you start using big words for simple concepts that it gets fishy. That’s where you are distancing yourself deliberately from what you’re saying.
But deep stuff shouldn’t get removed on the basis it’s deep. I guess a way to avoid being cut off from your own study is to force yourself to say at the start “This is relevant to me because I’ve done/thought/ X/Y/Z”

great point.  i have also seen it to mean simply: you did not preach that sermon expositionally, or verse by verse.  (and therefore it is not meaty or “deep”)

Pierre, I agree that a study shouldn’t be cut just because it’s deep.  However, I would also say that being in a group that requires lots of note taking, and little conversation in the name of being “deep” keeps us out of community.  On the other hand, a shallow Bible study doesn’t necessarily mean people are open and honest, or that conversation is even genuine.  

The real issue is that often churches make it easy to join a “sit and listen” Bible study, and feel like you’re better off. Rather than promoting the change that often genuine conversation can help implement.  Great thoughts.

Yeah, I’ve seen that too.  If a sermon title borders on trendy, then often people assume it isn’t “deep.”  Or if you tackle a topic rather than a chapter, it’s not “meaty.”  

I think Deeper studies have their place. I personally enjoy them because I love digging deeper in the word, pulling words apart and getting a deeper understanding of what God is trying to teach us. 

However, they rarely, if ever, allow for connection. In Ignite (my college ministry) our main group focuses on discussion. We ask the tough questions, encourage people to share what they are going through, and have seen these students grow because they are sharing their struggles and victories.

I agree with you that sometimes deeper studies can have a place, but at the same time I’ve noticed that college students (at least the ones I work with) are more interested in talking problems out rather than sitting quietly and taking notes based on my brilliance.  Out of curiosity, do you do ever do more teaching-focused deep studies with your college students and in what setting?

We don’t need a deeper study, we need to walk through life with each other. I like this, Seth!

Somehow I just realized you’re in Yorktown- crazy! What church do you pastor?

I usually agree with most of the things you post, but I can’t get on board with this one, buddy. I think wanting – even expecting – deep content in Bible studies is a sign of a mature, thoughtful believer. Suggesting that “the one reason” many people want deeper content is because of an unwillingness to engage in the messiness of people’s lives doesn’t seem quite right.

Many people may have an  unwillingness to engage in the messiness of people’s lives, but I’m not sure that’s necessarily a bad thing. In some Bible studies, the messiness of people’s lives comes out and is on full display. Often it’s a parade of horrors, to be blunt. Engaging in that messiness may not be productive, constructive, or otherwise helpful to the group, or to the individuals involved. Group Bible study is not group therapy, although some people may need both.

If I show up for Bible study, I don’t want study + therapy; I just want study. If I want therapy, I’ll go to a therapist. The messiness of my life (and, let’s be honest, we all have a little messiness – some more than others) has no place in my small group or in any group Bible study UNLESS I gained some wisdom from it or unless I can use my “messiness” to help someone else. 

If I’m just parading my emotional baggage around the living room in my small group host’s home, and I don’t have anything constructive to add that is likely to help someone else, I should just keep that crap to myself. I think that basically goes for anyone. 

Vulnerability in and of itself is not a virtue. Vulnerability for a purpose, when that purpose is connecting with people in a way that is likely to help them, can be a virtue. Even then, I think vulnerable people might need to see someone else’s strength just as much as, if not more than, their vulnerability (inspirational leadership). Most of us do need deeper studies, and while we should be willing to wade in the troubled waters of others’ lives, we shouldn’t be trudging through the mud and the muck without having any purpose aside from communal wallowing.

Thanks, Stephen.  I’m one of the small groups guys over at Northside Christian. Where are you at?

Noel, I can see where you’re coming from.  My problem with deep studies is that often they get used as an excuse for solid Christians (those who are secure enough in their walk with God to want a deep study) normally lean towards gathering together with other solid Christians to listen to someone teach.  I’d rather have that group split up and lead conversations with those who aren’t solid in their walk with God.  

I agree that vulnerability is not in and of itself a virtue, but I would also say that sitting in a room with other leaders taking notes while someone teaches isn’t a virtue either.  

I think we’d both agree that therapy session small groups and deeper studies without application are both pointless.

Very cool… I’ll have to look you guys up. I’m worship leader at New Song in Mechanicsville. Grew up in Newport News. You met Rob Shepherd? He just planted a church in Yorktown. Small world.

Thanks for acknowledging my point of view. I agree with what you said, at the end, there. I have a strong concern that the Christian community is often anti-intellectual. As one author put it:

“[E]vangelical Christianity need not be defined by the simplistic theology, cultural isolationism and stubborn anti-intellectualism that [some] have embraced.
Like other evangelicals, we accept the centrality of faith in Jesus Christ and look to the Bible as our sacred book, though we find it hard to recognize our religious tradition in the mainstream evangelical conversation. Evangelicalism at its best seeks a biblically grounded expression of Christianity that is intellectually engaged, humble and forward-looking. In contrast, fundamentalism is literalistic, overconfident and reactionary.” (http://nyti.ms/xYvnol)

It seems to me that without a strong apologetic, grounded in deep understanding of the Bible, Biblical theists (a term I prefer to the term “Christian,” which has lost any real meaning through dilution and varied application to a melange of different and often conflicting belief systems) have very little rational ground on which to stand. This is especially true when biblical theists are challenged by well-thought-out, well-reasoned critiques that are increasingly common in our internet-connected, and over-educated society.

More people, today, have access to education and information than at any time in history. As access to information becomes more democratic and ubiquitous, and as people have more time and resources to devote to education, our society will be increasingly literate, and more exposed to different ideas and philosophies. Bottom line: that means more intellectual, ideological, philosophical, and spiritual competition.

Biblical theists cannot just throw in the towel, and say, “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen,” and disavow the justifications for our beliefs. I’m here to stand up for a strong apologetic, because I am one of the most entrenched skeptics you are ever likely to meet. As a classical skeptic, I believe that beliefs, not knowledge, constitute the paradigm of action in which we all engage the world around us, and, consequently, our beliefs and the justifications for them are fundamentally important.

If we cannot justify our beliefs to an increasingly thoughtful, literate, educated, and contemplative society, how can we be expected to provide them with adequate justifications to believe as we do? Our burden is not to prove we are right in our beliefs, but to provide compelling justifications for those beliefs. Meeting this burden requires more than emotions, more than relationships, more than vulnerability, more than the – from an intellectual if not existential point of view – shallow interactions we have with others. Meeting this burden means providing individuals with the tools they need to stand alone, armored in a powerful justification for believing that their beliefs bear an inherent relation to ultimate truth. With these justifications, believers will be able to withstand the assault of rational, intelligent, even brilliant critiques of their faith without resorting to the shallow fundamentalism and anti-intellectualism currently endemic to the Christian community in America.

I’ve noticed the same thing as well, Seth. They retain and live out the message better when it’s a discussion they can engage with.

I don’t personally lead an in-depth study, but one of our student leaders does, and it’s open to anyone who wants to come. They do it on another night in someone’s dorm room. We also do a retreat every semester, and when I do the teaching, it’s still a discussion, but we go much more in depth.

I’m with you that often Biblical Theists tend to lean towards the anti-intellictual side.  Part of the problem is the fact that anyone can follow Jesus (I say “problem” tongue in cheek).  When you open up membership to anyone, you don’t get just the best and brightest (though you often do, ie Lewis, Augustine, etc.)  

I agree that Christians having solid logical arguments for their faith is important, and personally know several skeptical individuals whom I’ve had great conversations with because of the fact that I’ve read and studied much apologetics.  

While I agree that apologetics, intellect,  and rational reasoning is quite important to our faith.  I can’t say it’s required (and I’d assume you wouldn’t either).  I do think that community, or a small sub-section of the overall church, as an active component in my life is required by Scripture.  

In my experience relationships have often opened door for intelligent conversations/discussions on the merits of faith.  So perhaps every Christians should be trained in a little of each, but we must not fully neglect one or the other. 

Thanks again, Noel.  Always good to have someone who disagrees with me to keep me on my toes

This rings so true in much of my experience as a pastor. Dealing with real life, confession and repentance is much harder (and better) than simply going over a study. Thanks for this!

[...] The Reason Why so Many People Want Deeper Content by Ben [...]

This reminds me of a comment I heard made at a small group webcast, “We default to content because it is safer than going deeper.”  The best “deep” studies allow the depth of God’s word to penetrate the depth of our hearts.  

[...] divisive and brings nothing to the table. Worse, it detracts from the issues that are relevant and can be used deliberately to not address issues which are not of the mind. 2 Timothy 3:7 talks of people “always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of [...]