Comments on: I don’t need to go to church

By: rosacola

rosacola — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:04:59 +0000

"What the comments are lacking, and thus what they portray is that God doesn't have an active role in our lives."
Do you mean that those who aren't involved in a "faith community" don't have God actively involved in their lives?
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Ha ha, no. I am saying that is what the comments are eluding to. God does have an active role in our lives! Unfortunately, so many Christians depend on each other instead of God.

Yes we do need each other. But if I were to ever be stranded on an island, I know my faith would grow without “meeting together”, cause God will be there.

By: Benlreed

Benlreed — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:45:17 +0000

@rosacola,
"Almost every comment here has eluded to the church being…Sunday/Wednesday…"
That's why I used the phrase, "faith community." I know folks in home churches, and I intended them to read this post and process things through regular meetings with others in their home church. I didn't want to limit the discussion from them. Yes, the Church is the body…not a building. Couldn't agree with you more!
"What the comments are lacking, and thus what they portray is that God doesn't have an active role in our lives."
Do you mean that those who aren't involved in a "faith community" don't have God actively involved in their lives?
"If God is not capable of sustaining someone who is not involved in a regularly scheduled Sunday/Wednesday…, then what's the point…?"
It's not that God's not capable. He's capable of growing somebody through any means He sees fit. But the question isn't whether God is able to do something or not. The point that I made in response to James (above) is the same I'd make here. Ephesians 2:19-22 seems to say that God intends for us to grow in our faith…together. Christianity was never meant to be lived alone. We grow best in the context of redemptive communities.

By: rosacola

rosacola — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:24:56 +0000

Almost every comment here has eluded to the church being the regularly scheduled Sunday Wednesday activities thingy. What that does is pass judgment on anyone who doesn't meet and greet on Sunday or Wednesday night.

The "Church" is the body of Christ. It is an organism, not an organization.

Also, the comments are talking about keeping each other accountable. But what the comments are lacking, and thus what they portray is that God doesn't have an active role in our lives. That He is so distant that we can only rely on each other. I hope that is not where everyone here is, because that is a sad place to live.

If God is not capable of sustaining someone who is not involved in a regularly scheduled Sunday/Wednesday meeting place, then what's the point, really?

By: Benlreed

Benlreed — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:05:08 +0000

James,
Thanks for the reply!

I don't completely disagree with you. There definitely is growth that happens apart from a local church. And yes, it's true that there is a step of faith (growth) that happens when a person decides to invest in a local church.

I think that the person who decides to act on their conviction that being a part of the community is important will find much richer growth, and growth that will sustain in the long-term.

The question to ask, though, is, "Why would a person voluntarily remove themselves from a faith community (church)?" That's the bigger (or at least, more pointed), question. The difficulties of living life in community with others is part of the refining work that God does in our hearts as believers. Our approach to relationships with others is so often self-serving that, when things get tough, we bail. When there are problems in the church, instead of sticking with it, we run.

"Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit." (Ephesians 2:19-22)

Here, we see that God intends for us to move toward each other in redemptive community ("fellow citizens with God's people…joined together…being built together…"). Christianity was never meant to be lived alone. And the phrase, "…we become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit" implies that growth happens together (it doesn't exclude individual growth, but the overarching idea is that we are called to grow together…and that growing together happens…together.)

By: Sandra

Sandra — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:26:25 +0000

Well, now, being among others is important to growth. However, I am thinking of all those who do not have the pleasure on finding a "local" church that suits their needs. Some people in our world cannot even afford a Bible. But my mighty God would still allow spiritual growth to them, just as he would to those who find a church and go faithfully. The question was, can you grow spritually, without going to church….I certainly hope so, for the sake of so many. But goodness, I didn't mean to turn over the apple cart!!!!

By: Mike Waits

Mike Waits — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:10:42 +0000

Nice post, Ben! I think taking from the example the Apostle's gave us (for those needing better clarification – men set apart to walk with & learn from Christ) we can do "church" because we are the Church. Acts 2 gives us a beautiful picture of this and note, it leaves out service requirements and just lists what they did. My favorite part, "Everyday they continued to meet together in the temple courts…praising God and enjoying the favor of all people…" (Acts 2:42-47). I think for too long America has marketed Christianity as something that is attained personally, practiced personally and to be kept personally, but in so doing has given the Church an image of a building and not a body.
To answer your question, I suppose a person can grow in their faith w/o being involved in a Christian community (for example a man on Patmos) but my question is why would a Christian want to?
Keep up the critical thinking, Ben. God bless!

By: John Mark

John Mark — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:18:54 +0000

Our church is practicing fellowship-by-conversation. At your advise, we have devoted some Sunday evenings to small group 'labs' on some important themes from Acts: fellowship, praying together, the identity and ministry of the Holy Spirit, and the role of miracles. More will be coming in the future.
We are studying the Bible together to retrain our minds to see all of life in the context of Jesus' audacious plan to take over the world (=Great Commission, Davidic & Abrahamic promises) and the movement of disciples he commanded to do it (=Church as true Israel). This worldview will change everything.

By: jamesvandyke

jamesvandyke — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:13:18 +0000

I think your hypothesis draws too stark of a line to be universally true. I can agree that a person should be a part of the church and that in general a person's faith will grow more as a part of community of believers. However, it seems plausible that a person could grow apart from a community of believers.

Consider this scenario – A person is deliberately not a part of the church. Then, the person decides that being a part of the community is important and acts on that. Isn't the act of joining the community a fruit of the person's increasing faith in the word of God which has occurred apart from being with the church?

By: Church: Not a Sufficient or Necessary Cause of Spiritual Growth « NoelBagwell.com

Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:12:38 +0000

[...] reading Ben’s 6-Point Post, it seems that one of the fundamental, underlying reasons why viewing regular participation in a [...]

By: nbagwell

nbagwell — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:01:08 +0000

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I really wanted to leave you a comment. I started typing, and, after a while, realized that the little scroll bar in the post window kept getting smaller and smaller and further and further away from the top of the scrolling column thingie (yes, that's the technical term).

When I finally finished and submitted my comment, your blog kindly informed me that it was too long. Big surprise. (-.-)

So, I have copied and pasted it on my blog for the reading convenience of whomever has a few minutes to spare. I think it will be worth your time and consideration. So, follow the link above for my comment. Thanks!