Did Rob Bell Offend You?

The other pastor. It’s only that kind of language that sometimes breaks through to people. Maybe it caused the pastor to stop and think.

Good stuff bro.

Your tweet on Chuck Swindoll drew me here. Your article on Rob Bell led me to comment.

I saw a tweet that referenced Bell’s use of the phrase at Catalyst but couldn’t confirm it. Thanks for the verification.

In the private, individual situation, I would say referencing the expletive would be a matter between Bell, the pastor and God. No judgement.

I’ll leave it to the scholars to debate the question “to cuss or not to cuss,” in general.

The Catalyst situation was entirely different. The stage was a preaching platform. There was and will be (with videos) a global audience watching. Without question, there were people offended by the reference (gasps). There were women present. Some were probably embarrassed. My wife was offended just hearing about it.

Unlike the pastor in a private setting, many of these people in the public venue “didn’t need” the jolt Bell was attempting to give.

To me, it doesn’t matter why he felt compelled to use it. In that setting, a boundary of decency was crosxed (Colossians 3:8). Every point could have been made, expletive deleted.

The moral code of our culture has been debased, language included. It’s getting worse. Do we want to start down that road in the church? Why only use the initials? Why not just say it outright. Wouldn’t that have really driven the point home.

I’ve never read Bell’s books or heard him speak. My critique is on your report of the events and by your invitation only. Thanks for the opportunity.

BTW (hope there’s no cuss word in here), Chuck Swindoll’s message and your commentary were both home runs.

Daddy, what does WTF stand for?
Does using such language ultimately bring glory to God?

This has been around for a while now. When we came off of the mission field, we heard reports of college students cussing in prayer. Sorry, I just can’t fathom how that can be inspired by the Holy Spirit. No matter how real we are being.

I’m not old fashioned, but I do believe that there should be a line that we don’t cross.

Thanks for the post. I missed going to Catalyst this year, but have enjoyed the banter. Great to hear how God is moving @ GCC!

Ben,

Unfortunately, the leadership and church growth culture has, over the years, promoted that mindset among pastors. I want the largest number of people possible to be under the sound of the gospel and experiencing the grace of God in the context of community, but to measure that success merely by numbers and to dismiss those to which I am currently called, would be more about me than about the gospel and God’s kingdom. Thanks for posting.

I was just thinking this week about why so many pastors delight in being edgy, especially with mentioning sex often in sermons. [WT#] is a pathetic attempt to get attention. Our speech should not be coarse, but with grace. You can have Rob Bell. I’m not interested in what he has to say.

What level of sin is OK? At what point do we draw the line and say, “No … I’m not going there”?

The use of the profanity – either in full-out form, or in the acronym, was completely uncalled for. Do you think Jesus would have used that kind of approach? Do you think He was shouting obscenities as He was clearing the money-changers from the temple? I don’t think so.

There are other ways to make a point and to get the shock and awe factor without compromising one’s beliefs and without crossing the line.

If you were to go witness to a drunk in a bar … is it OK to ‘knock a couple back’ with him, so that he feels you are relating to him better? That may be reaching a bit … but … sin is sin — and do we really subscribe to a philosophy of “the ends justify the means” … or do we try to walk the straight and narrow?

Just some thoughts …

I first read the post and it did not click at first. After reading it the second time, I think that Rob Bell and a pastor I know in Bowling Green, KY should meet sometime. These two would not be in the same category as other pastors that I have met in the past but these two by far are the most outspoken and I would have loved to go to Catalyst this year.

I hope there are more Rob Bell’s and Steve Ayers out there who are willing to look past the politics of church and really preach what is on your heart. I think that is where we have gone wrong in the church. We want people to come church, be saved and baptized, but instead of discipling them to be more effective as a Christian, we just throw them to the wolves the second they leave the baptistery. I used to play this game for close to 10 years (11 years now) and I just had enough of the church politics. We need to love those with whom we make contact and show them that we love them and are willing to listen what is on their heart.

I would like to say that I love the community group that I am apart at Grace Community Church. I think that is what is missing in churches today. There are discipleship training classes but I feel like that at some point that it does become ineffective. I felt since I joined my small group, I now know that what has been missing in my life. The ability to let folks know in a small group setting what’s really on your heart.

As most people who know me know, I’m usually not usually considered a legalist. I have certainly crossed the line in things I have said.

I am, however, purposeful. I believe we should think through what we are saying and work towards the greater good in all that we do or say. If we only consider the context in which he used it, I think it was wrong, because of what we are experiencing now…the debate over whether it was right or wrong. He loses the overall value of his message because we are caught up in those three letters, instead of the truth he was trying to portray. Honestly, I wasn’t there, but I’ve forgotten what people have told me he talked about, but I haven’t forgotten this occurrence.

On a similar point, I should ask, when you hear those three leaders spoken, what goes through your mind? To me, I can’t hear them without spelling it out in my mind. Frankly, I don’t want that word floating around in my mind. Cultural or not, it’s not a word I want to use. Whether in thought or action, if the word is wrong for me it’s wrong. (Jesus said an affair of the heart is like an affair of the body in committing adultery.)

Rob Bell may have been completely purposeful in his choice of the phrase, it may have been a spur of the moment slip or an error in judgment when he prepared his talk, but in my opinion it has more end harm than end good considering the current debate it has caused.

All that being said, I also will not dismiss the entire message or teaching of Rob Bell because he used a phrase I do not agree with.

PS. I wish your program didn’t make it look like I don’t use paragraphs, because I do.

Ben,
Good questions..sad but true..Most Christians use, say or type works like “wtf” on a regular basis. I have seen it all of my life and I grew up in large Southern Baptist churches! Although it is still probably not right; no Christian is perfect. In fact I have struggled for a while finding any Christian book that interest me..something DIFFERENT (like the left behind series or Francine Rivers). Now I am going to pick up one of Rob Bell’s books! Got my attention huh!?

I think it is a perfect example of people getting caught up on the minor things that Rob Bell does rather than looking at the positive things he is doing. Overall, his message was excellent, but people want to dispute his legitimacy because of one thought.

Ben….I think you can already guess what I’m going to say I think there were other, better, more appropriate ways of getting attention or reaching the crowd that other pastors don’t reach. Yes, it may have worked on some of the targeted audience and not offended them, but how many people did he make uncomfortable or convict with the use of a word that could have easily been substituted. Those peole had to hear it, read it or say it in their minds and to them that may have been convicting just being in the presence of it.

Im all about individuals who are believers to Be the example. Of course if you google the word You get many surprises yet The word itself has many meanings. Almost like a wildcard word you can stuff in any sentence to shudder attention to make a point. It can be used as a noun, verb, adjective, adverb, pronoun, or interjection! But one thing its defined clearly as being is Offensive to most people. Offensive is NOT a good characteristic of being a good witness..So if this fella is bent on being happy having a small flock to lead……keep it up and he’ll get his wish..its already lost a few..

I think that it is a question of influence. Is there anything in Scripture that lays out whether a pastor can or cannot say WTF? No. Are there parts where we can deduct the wise decision? Yes. I think that a lot of people shut off when he said WTF, simply because they were offended and they associate WTF with the obvious. In this case, Rob lost influence in some people’s life. Granted, there are times when speaking the truth to someone could cause you to lose influence. But I believe that that is a good way to lose it, and there are bad ways.

It can be compared to the discussion of drinking alcohol (you thought you had lots of comments before…now I opened the alcohol debate). Is it explicitly laid out in Scripture that Christians are not to consume alcohol? No, but it falls under the association/influence category. Some (and let me stress some…) associate alcohol with drunkenness, and past hurt and pain, thus it could be a situation of losing influence in that person’s life.

The Gospel is shocking enough to grab a person’s attention. The story that Jesus died for people who absolutely hate him and chose selfishly their way and sin daily is crazy! As communicators, we have to be aware that we influence people with our words. May our words be from the Truth, and let the Truth be shocking.

P.S.-has anyone told you that your blog doesn’t make paragraphs?

However, that said, I didn’t throw out the baby with the bath water. Rob had a lot of good things to say to Pastors and leaders in the church.

You all bring up great points, and I figured I'd weigh in on the topic.

The comments seem to have gone more towards being offended at the phrase that Bell used than the point he was making. Honestly, I was more offended with the other pastor's response than with the phrase.

Let me also say that I don't use the phrase, either publicly from the stage or privately. I think that it is offensive, and Bell's use of it was, in my opinion, merely to stir people up. I don't think that that's a good tactic in preaching. The Gospel itself is offensive enough. If I need to use language that culture calls offensive in order to stir people up, I need to be reminding myself of the gospel more often. Though cussing is, in my opinion, a gray issue, when spoken publicly from stage in this way it tends to do more harm than good. As a couple of you have said, "What do we remember from his sermon now?" I don't think that, just because Bell said that from stage, his salvation needs to be questioned. I just think that it was unwise and did more damage than good.

However, I greatly benefited from Bell's sermon. I wasn't one who was so distracted after "the phrase" that I completely tuned him out. Bell had lots of wisdom and insight to share. It was unfortunate that so many people missed it.

I hope that this post has caused you to think more deeply about your faith, and fall more deeply in love with our Savior.

That's true, Jacob. Pastors/speakers have to be careful with language. Thanks for commenting!

I wanted to make 2 comments. (1) The use of WTF bomb was not wise–period. (2) I agree with your article where you state, "(on a side note, thinking about criticism…don’t criticize somebody until you’ve read their books firsthand, or heard them speak for yourself…don’t just take another blogger/writer/pastor’s critique of the person…do the work yourself, then you can criticize)." The reason why I agree with that statement, is because the word of God commands us to know His word, so that you can test the spirits, or have discernment, etc., in regard to any teaching. Agreeing or disagreeing with some of Bell's speech by an individual is really irrelevant – what does matter is where does it line up with God's word–what does God think about it? Everyone has an opinion, but that does not mean that opinion is biblical. When I think something and that thinking is contrary to God's word (His thinking), I have to get over to where His thought about something are, in other words, my mind is transformed/renewed. If everything Bell does lines up with the truth of God's word, then it's trustworthy, however, if on one point it is heresy, then that little bit of leaven taints the whole thing. One of the most godly, truth teaching pastors that I ever sat under, gave me a great litmus test for truth: rat poison is made up of about 99% wheat and 1 % poison. What does that make it? Poison. It taints it all. The word of God is the standard and in reading Bell's books, website, and hearing him speak, etc., I have to say that it all contains dross.

Great thoughts here…thanks for jumping into the conversation!

Can I push back a little? "If everything Bell does lines up with the truth of God's word, then it's trustworthy, however if on one point it is heresy, then that little bit of leaven taints the whole thing…" So are you saying that his use of WTF is heresy? So does that phrase make his whole sermon poison?

I think that the use of that phrase was unwise. But I find it difficult to say that it completely taints his whole message. Maybe it caused people to focus more on that phrase than on the rest of the message he shared. But he wasn't twisting Scripture to say that. I don't feel he was being anti-Biblical.

I don't use the phrase because it is offensive to many people. But I was able to overlook that to see the broader message that Bell was proclaiming.

I'm not a Bell-ite, by any stretch of the imagination. But I think he had a great message that day.

I apologize for not making my comments clear. Comment number one was only in regard to the WTF bomb – it was a one liner – "the use of the WTF bomb was unwise – period."
The second comment was in regard to your article, where I agreed with your statement, "(on a side note, thinking about criticism…don’t criticize somebody until you’ve read their books firsthand, or heard them speak for yourself…don’t just take another blogger/writer/pastor’s critique of the person…do the work yourself, then you can criticize)." You are totally correct to give that advice. Now, let me push back a little, and give you the reason why I made that second comment. I have been a leader in Middle and High School Ministry for the past 5 years. Two years ago, the use of Nooma videos was my first introduction to Rob Bell. Those videos were being used in the high school ministry. This gave pause to look at him a deeper. Some of the parents of our youth started reading his books, looking over his material, listening to his speeches, etc., to find out how solid Bell's teaching was, because some of the kids even questioned the teaching. After doing all those things, those parents, found quite a few things about Rob Bell that were more than questionable. Since you are familiar with all of Bell's books, etc., I need explain no further. Now that you have this explanation, go back and read my previous comment. Thanks for your response.

there are so many rats at home and i am looking for a really good rat poison~.-

Toby,
Not sure I follow. Can you elaborate?